Back Payments Of S.S. Survivors Benefits

[r***@webtv.net]

My son has been disabled with chronic daily headaches and related mental
disabilities since age 12. He began receiving S.S.D. and S.S.I.
before age 22 and he is now 56. My wife passed away in late 2009 which
allowed My son to begin collecting Survivors benefits under my PIA. He
filed for Survivors Benefits in July of 2010 and his first check was
received in November 2010. Before filing for Sur. Benefits he received
$598.00 monthly in S.S.D. Benefits and $210.39 S.S.I. Benefits Monthly.
His first checks issued in November were for $598. based on his own
PIA and another $125. based on my PIA plus the original $210.39 S.S.I.
In December he again received $598. & $125. for a total of $723. in
S.S. Survivors Benefits but his S.S.I was reduced to $114.00 which is
the minimum paid in MA to a single person in monthly S.S.I. Here is my
question: In the Survivors Benefits original reward letter it states
that my son is entitled to monthly child's benefit beginning April 1984.
I believe this is when my wife originally started collecting S.S. based
on my P.I.A ??? Should 'nt my son be due any benefits from April 1984
?? or at least more than one month retroactive payments from July 2010
when he first applied for S.S. Survivors Benefits ???

Thanks For Considering My Post !!!

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
My son has been disabled with chronic daily headaches and related mental
disabilities since age 12. He began receiving S.S.D. and S.S.I.
before age 22 and he is now 56. My wife passed away in late 2009 which
allowed My son to begin collecting Survivors benefits under my PIA. He
filed for Survivors Benefits in July of 2010 and his first check was
received in November 2010. Before filing for Sur. Benefits he received
$598.00 monthly in S.S.D. Benefits and $210.39 S.S.I. Benefits Monthly.
His first checks issued in November were for $598. based on his own
PIA and another $125. based on my PIA plus the original $210.39 S.S.I.
In December he again received $598. & $125. for a total of $723. in
S.S. Survivors Benefits but his S.S.I was reduced to $114.00 which is
the minimum paid in MA to a single person in monthly S.S.I. Here is my
question: In the Survivors Benefits original reward letter it states
that my son is entitled to monthly child's benefit beginning April 1984.
I believe this is when my wife originally started collecting S.S. based
on my P.I.A ??? Should 'nt my son be due any benefits from April 1984
?? or at least more than one month retroactive payments from July 2010
when he first applied for S.S. Survivors Benefits ???
Thanks For Considering My Post !!!

This question needs major clarification. First, how can the son draw
survivor's benefits on your PIA if you're still alive? A precise
chronology would be helpful. I assume that you're drawing straight
retirement now. Did this convert from SSDI? When did son first start
drawing SSDI? Was either parent drawing at that time? Did the mother
draw retiement or SSDI on her own account or as a wife on your acct.,
or both? Did the son receive child's benefits on either his mother or
father before mother died? Exact dates would be helpful. Forget the
SSI part; that's not involved with title II retroactivity.

[r***@webtv.net]

I am surprised you did not know a child disabled before 22 is able to
collect 50% of a parents PIA even before that parents death and 75%
after that parents death. I mean how did my sons Survivors Beneifits
get approved if this was not the case in the first place. What concerns
me is if his amount is improper in any way and the appeals proccess time
goes by before he appeals he is in trouble for ever.

Yes at 88 I am collecting straight S.S. retirement and not I was never
disabled so my own benefit was not converted to SSDI ever.
My wife was only a housewife all her life so she started to collect 50%
of my PIA at 62 which is the age I retired also. As I mentioned before
up until my wifes death in late 2009 my son did not collect childs
benefit on either my wifes or my SS record as this was not possible with
my wife collecting on my PIA during her full retirement up until she
passed away which then allowed my son to collect under my PIA. I don't
know why you say to forget SSI part because it is not involved with
title II retroactivity because when my son first started collecting SSD
and SSI in 1976 he received back payments for each. Again Jack Thank
You For The Taking Of Your Time To Consider My Post !!!

Omer H.

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
I am surprised you did not know a child disabled before 22 is able to
collect 50% of a parents PIA even before that parents death and 75%
after that parents death.
I mean how did my sons Survivors Beneifits
get approved if this was not the case in the first place.
What concerns
me is if his amount is improper in any way and the appeals proccess time
goes by before he appeals he is in trouble for ever.
Yes at 88 I am collecting straight S.S. retirement and not I was never
disabled so my own benefit was not converted to SSDI ever.
My wife was only a housewife all her life so she started to collect 50%
of my PIA at 62 which is the age I retired also. As I mentioned before
up until my wifes death in late 2009 my son did not collect childs
benefit on either my wifes or my SS record as this was not possible with
my wife collecting on my PIA during her full retirement up until she
passed away which then allowed my son to collect under my PIA. I don't
know why you say to forget SSI part because it is not involved with
title II retroactivity because when my son first started collecting SSD
and SSI in 1976 he received back payments for each. Again Jack Thank
You For The Taking Of Your Time To Consider My Post !!!
Omer H.

Well, having adjudicated and reviewed about 15,000 disability claims
as a disability examiner in central office, followed by 23 years of
writing disability regulations and operating policies, I know a little
bit about disabled adult children. But in your opening post, you said
that he hs drawing a survivor's benefit on your PIA. That's
impossible. Also, if your wife never worked, he can't be drawing a
survivor benefit on her account, nor could he have drawn any other
kind of SS benefit on her acct. while she was living.

If your son's SSDI was higher than the amount he would have received
as a disabled adult child while your wife was alive and drawing on
your PIA, then he would not have qualified on your PIA. There would
have been two dependents to share the pie. When she died in late '09,
there was only one, your son. Thus, his earliest month of entitlement
on your PIA would have been when his mother terminated in late '09.
However, a dependent's application on the account of a primary
beneficiary who is drawing straight SS retirement has a retroactive
life of only three months. Accordingly, unless someone filed a
protective application or inquiry for your son, his earliest month of
entitlement would be 4/10 which was three months prior to his formal
application of 7/10.

The SSI portion has nothing to do with your question about title II
retroactivity.

[Twayne]

Well, having adjudicated and reviewed  about 15,000 disability claims
as a disability examiner in central office,

Like a DMV worker who turns into a mind-numbed robot after processing
the first hundred or so driver's license applications?


followed by 23 years of writing disability regulations and operating
policies,

Which amounts to repeating one year's worth of substantive experience
twenty three times.

[Relayer]

Post by Twayne

Well, having adjudicated and reviewed  about 15,000 disability claims
as a disability examiner in central office,

Like a DMV worker who turns into a mind-numbed robot after processing
the first hundred or so driver's license applications?
 followed by 23 years of  writing disability regulations and operating
policies,
Which amounts to repeating one year's worth of substantive experience
twenty three times.

naw, if you go into a DMV, the workers certainly see the same
"situation" day in and day out is different than working at SSA on
various cases. You can only take the same type of picture X amount of
days/years or telling the guy to go to windows 6 who will then tell
you to go to Window 7 is different than "Well, having adjudicated and
reviewed about 15,000 disability claims as a disability examiner in
central office, followed by 23 years of
writing disability regulations and operating policies, I know a little
bit about disabled adult children." At least there is variety. My
brother is a biologist with a government agency and see's the same
crap all day long.

As far as myself, very little days were the same.

[Twayne]

Post by Relayer

Post by Twayne

Well, having adjudicated and reviewed  about 15,000 disability claims
as a disability examiner in central office,

Like a DMV worker who turns into a mind-numbed robot after processing
the first hundred or so driver's license applications?
 followed by 23 years of  writing disability regulations and operating
policies,
Which amounts to repeating one year's worth of substantive experience
twenty three times.

naw, if you go into a DMV, the workers certainly see the same
"situation" day in and day out is different than working at SSA on
various cases.

-----irrelevant bull crap deleted-----
.

Post by Relayer
At least there is variety.

There's variety in a donut sore too. But, if you go there every day
it doesn't take very long to realize that the so-called variety is
like endless circular convolution.
.

Post by Relayer
My
brother is a biologist with a government agency and see's the same
crap all day long.

My point exactly.....just like the fat lady at the DMV and just like
your jack-off jack.

[r***@webtv.net]

Thank You Jack:

Maybe I said it wrong but it was my understanding that my son's S.S.D.
check of $598. which he had been receiving for years was based on his
own PIA and now he receive another $125. based in some way on my PIA ??
I am not going over this to be right as I respect your experience in
S.S. law it's only to understand if what my son is now receiving is the
proper amount. Since I receive $1069. and this considers a 25%
reduction in my own benefits it would seem that my son receivng a total
benefit of $723. to be 50% as proper ??

The only other thing that concerns me is if we have any basis to appeal
my son's July 2010 application for survivors benefits ?? I state this
because my son applied for these benefits in July and only received an
increased benefit for the first month he was awarded Survivors Benefits
which was November 2010. According to what you stated in your last
response he could be due increased benefits back to 3 months before his
July 2010 application ??

Thanks Again For Your Time and Informed Knowledge !!!!!

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Maybe I said it wrong but it was my understanding that my son's S.S.D.
check of $598. which he had been receiving for years was based on his
own PIA and now he receive another $125. based in some way on my PIA ??
I am not going over this to be right as I respect your experience in
S.S. law it's only to understand if what my son is now receiving is the
proper amount. Since I receive $1069. and this considers a 25%
reduction in my own benefits it would seem that my son receivng a total
benefit of $723. to be 50% as proper ??
The only other thing that concerns me is if we have any basis to appeal
my son's July 2010 application for survivors benefits ?? I state this
because my son applied for these benefits in July and only received an
increased benefit for the first month he was awarded Survivors Benefits
which was November 2010. According to what you stated in your last
response he could be due increased benefits back to 3 months before his
July 2010 application ??
Thanks Again For Your Time and Informed Knowledge !!!!!

Congratulations on your longevity. My parents would be 89. You
people were America's Greatest Generation.

Divide your UNreduced PIA by 2. Subtract your boy's PIA. The result
is what your boy should be drawing on your account.

He is not drawing any survivor's benefit. You are alive and his
mother did not work. So he cannot be drawing any survivor's benefit.


First, look at the award letter for childhood benefits as to your
appeal rights. The time for a recon appeal may be gone; it's usually
60 days, but this issue may be reopened within 4 years if there was a
clerical error in computing benefits. In any event, contact your
local office and ask why he did not receive childhood benefits on your
account beginning in the month your wife terminated from your account
due to her death, or at the latest, three months prior to the
application. SSA screws up a lot of things but they are pretty good
when it comes to computing benefits. They simply input dates into the
computer and the computer does the work. If their explanation does
not satisfy you and the time for a formal recon appeal has passed,
remind them of these two reopening regulations:

http://ftp.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/404/404-0988.htm

§404.988 Conditions for reopening.

http://ftp.ssa.gov/OP_Home/cfr20/404/404-0989.htm

§404.989 Good cause for reopening.
_______

[r***@webtv.net]

Jack Thanks Again For The Informed Info & Your Kind Words .....

You were right I did your computation and arrived at $114. since they
are giving him $125. we are pretty close. Again I am getting $1069.
after Medicare deduction and he was getting $598. now in addition he is
getting $125. for a total of S.S.D. of $723. then another $114. from
the state of Massachusetts.

I know it's such a hassle dealing with S.S. and my son might not be due
anything anyway so if you don't mind can I review the numbers and dates
as to what occurred in 2010 for your opinion ??

My wife died in September 2009.

My son applied for Survivors Benefits in July of 2010.

Before and after July he was getting $598. S.S.D. I. and $210.39 from
S.S.I. for a total benefit of $808.39 monthly.

On November 16th, 2010 he received his Survivors Benefit Award Letter
that stated " he would be getting $125.00 additionally to his $598.00
S.S.D.I. monthly. Since he had already received his $598.00 S.S.D.I.
and $210.39 at the beginning of November these three payments came to a
total of $933.39 received in November.

On November 17th, 2010 he received a letter from S.S.I. that said " my
son would be getting $114.39 (Continuing) starting January 1st, 2011,
this includes $114.39 from the State of Massachusetts. Also, we will
reduce your payments as shown above ($114.39) beginning January 2011.
We have not reduced the next payment since you may appeal this decision
within 10 days from the date you get this letter. However, you may have
to pay back any money you are not due. " Another place in this letter
says one has a right to appeal for 60 days ??

On December 8th, 2010 he received another letter from S.S.I. repeating
the same information on my son's new S.S.I. amount of $114.39 starting
January 1st, 2011. In addition the letter states: " We previously
notified you about a $96.00 overpayment and you requested that we not
require repayment of this amount. We considered the information you
gave us and have determined that you will not have to pay this money
back. " This is strange because although S.S. in November said if
their was an overpayment it would need to be repayed, Social Security
never sent us any letters specifically mentioning $96.00 until now
(December 8th), and we never replied to such a letter as was not
received ??

Jack can you shed any light on this ?? especially if and when my son my
be due any retroactive S.S. or not ??

Again All Our Thanks & Happy New Year !!!

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Jack Thanks Again For The Informed Info & Your Kind Words .....
You were right I did your computation and arrived at $114. since they
are giving him $125. we are pretty close. Again I am getting $1069.
after Medicare deduction and he was getting $598. now in addition he is
getting $125. for a total of S.S.D. of $723. then another $114. from
the state of Massachusetts.
I know it's such a hassle dealing with S.S. and my son might not be due
anything anyway so if you don't mind can I review the numbers and dates
as to what occurred in 2010 for your opinion ??
My wife died in September 2009.
My son applied for Survivors Benefits in July of 2010.
Before and after July he was getting $598. S.S.D. I. and $210.39 from
S.S.I. for a total benefit of $808.39 monthly.
On November 16th, 2010 he received his Survivors Benefit Award Letter
that stated " he would be getting $125.00 additionally to his $598.00
S.S.D.I. monthly. Since he had already received his $598.00 S.S.D.I.
and $210.39 at the beginning of November these three payments came to a
total of $933.39 received in November.
On November 17th, 2010 he received a letter from S.S.I. that said " my
son would be getting $114.39 (Continuing) starting January 1st, 2011,
this includes $114.39 from the State of Massachusetts. Also, we will
reduce your payments as shown above ($114.39) beginning January 2011.
We have not reduced the next payment since you may appeal this decision
within 10 days from the date you get this letter. However, you may have
to pay back any money you are not due. " Another place in this letter
says one has a right to appeal for 60 days ??
On December 8th, 2010 he received another letter from S.S.I. repeating
the same information on my son's new S.S.I. amount of $114.39 starting
January 1st, 2011. In addition the letter states: " We previously
notified you about a $96.00 overpayment and you requested that we not
require repayment of this amount. We considered the information you
gave us and have determined that you will not have to pay this money
back. " This is strange because although S.S. in November said if
their was an overpayment it would need to be repayed, Social Security
never sent us any letters specifically mentioning $96.00 until now
(December 8th), and we never replied to such a letter as was not
received ??
Jack can you shed any light on this ?? especially if and when my son my
be due any retroactive S.S. or not ??
Again All Our Thanks & Happy New Year !!!

Hate to keep beating this into the ground, but you said that his mom
never worked. If a person has never worked, she would not be
insured. Therefore it boggles the mind how he can be drawing a
survivor's benefit. I assumed that he was getting child's benefits as
an adult disabled child on the account of a living wage earner, i.e.,
you.

Regarding the SSI portion, it's natural for SSI to decrease if his
social security increases.

The big issue here is the retroactivity. Yes, it's a hassle to deal
with them but it's worth the effort. Your wife who was drawing
spouse's benefits on your acct. died in 9/09. If an application had
been filed timely, your son should have received child's benefits
effective 9/09, i.e., the difference between his SSDI and 50% of your
PIA. The application was filed 7/10. Child's benefits on your record
should have started 4/10, certainly not 11/10.

Maybe SSA is still in the process of making adjustments in recomputing
the proper SSA/SSI payouts. If so, they will clarify this for you.
But if they have made a clerical error in computation, a reopening to
correct the record is in order. These computation errors can be
reopened at any time within 4 yrs. At best, this could result in
extra benefits. At the very least you'll have peace of mind knowing
one way or the other regarding this retroactivity problem. So it's
worth the hassle.

[r***@webtv.net]

Jack my wife did work but only when she was very young therefore when we
both retired at 62 we both collected under my PIA that is why my son was
not collecting from my PIA back anytime before my wife pasted away in
Septemeber 2009. I don't know how it boggles your mind that now my son
could be collecting on my work record as my wife did. Before that he
was collecting on his own record of what he earned before turning 22 and
in addition S.S.I.
up to the amount the S.S. law allows.

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Jack my wife did work but only when she was very young therefore when we
both retired at 62 we both collected under my PIA that is why my son was
not collecting from my PIA back anytime before my wife pasted away in
Septemeber 2009. I don't know how it boggles your mind that now my son
could be collecting on my work record as my wife did. Before that he
was collecting on his own record of what he earned before turning 22 and
in addition S.S.I.
up to the amount the S.S. law allows.

You're not following.

It does not boggle my mind that your son is now drawing on your acct.
That's what I've been saying all along. It boggles my mind when you
keep saying he is drawing survivor's benefits which are only paid on
the PIA of a dead person. Even if your wife did work, the fact that
she did not draw SS retirement on her own acct. shows that she was not
insured. In other words, she did not have enough work credits for
herself or anyone else on her acct. If she had been insured, they
would have paid her through her own acct., and also paid her a
spouse's benefit on your acct. The amt. of her spouse's benefit would
have been the difference between her own PIA subtracted from what she
was entitled to on your acct. Instead, all of her SS money came from
your PIA. That's what you have reported. You said nothing about her
drawing her own SS retirement in addition to the wife's benefit.

[r***@webtv.net]

Jack, the way I understand it is that my son's combined SSDI and SSI
monthly benefit anytime between his mothers passing in 9/09 to 11/10 was
$598.00 S.S.D.I. plus $210.39 S.S.I. for a total monthly benefit of
$808.39. His new S.S.D.I. amount is $723.00 plus his new S.S.I.
amount is 114.39 for a total of $837.39. If that is the case ?, I
guess Social Security believes that when they count what my son was paid
in total every month including S.S.I. they owe him very little or
nothing ??
If you see by your past experience they are not playing fair can you
tell me which method of appeal we should use and what could be briefly
said to get our point across which as you can see I can have trouble
doing !!

Old Total Monthly Benefit Amount ($808.39)

New Total Monthly Benefit Amount ($837.39)


Thanks So Much and Happy New Year !!!!

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Jack, the way I understand it is that my son's combined SSDI and SSI
monthly benefit anytime between his mothers passing in 9/09 to 11/10 was
$598.00 S.S.D.I. plus $210.39 S.S.I. for a total monthly benefit of
$808.39. His new S.S.D.I. amount is $723.00 plus his new S.S.I.
amount is 114.39 for a total of $837.39. If that is the case ?, I
guess Social Security believes that when they count what my son was paid
in total every month including S.S.I. they owe him very little or
nothing ??
If you see by your past experience they are not playing fair can you
tell me which method of appeal we should use and what could be briefly
said to get our point across which as you can see I can have trouble
doing !!
Old Total Monthly Benefit Amount ($808.39)
New Total Monthly Benefit Amount ($837.39)
Thanks So Much and Happy New Year !!!!

Your issue is the retroactivity of your son's childhood benefit on
your acct. after mother died. They're not trying to cheat you.
They'r either in the process of getting the correct amts. figured out
or else they made a clerical error in inputting the necessary data to
the computer. You need to visit the local office and ask them why he
was not entitled on your acct. as a child until Nov. 2010, after your
wife stopped being entitled in Sept. 2009, and the childhood
application was filed in July 2010. An entitlement date of Nov. 2010
does not make sense, based on the dates you have provided here.

[r***@webtv.net]

Jack you don't seem to think that my sons past SSDI and SSI and current
are very close to the same monthly amounts meaning anything as far as
justifying S.S. actions ?? I mean his new amount is very close to the
old one just that now his SSDI has gone up by $125.00 and his SSI has
gone down $96.00 ??
I of course want to agree with you but just don't understand the logic
that I believe they will use against us ?? I know one thing from the
letters my son has received that S. S. is not still in the process of
determining his final figure ... they are done as far as they are
concerned ....

Also my son is away from home helping me with a medical concern for an
extended period of time so can this issue be discussed with Social
Security in a letter as I can see his absense from home opening up
another can of worms esp. with his living situation and SSI he has not
moved but will be here for a quite a while ??

Sorry For So Many Concerns !!!

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Jack you don't seem to think that my sons past SSDI and SSI and current
are very close to the same monthly amounts meaning anything as far as
justifying S.S. actions ?? I mean his new amount is very close to the
old one just that now his SSDI has gone up by $125.00 and his SSI has
gone down $96.00 ??
I of course want to agree with you but just don't understand the logic
that I believe they will use against us ?? I know one thing from the
letters my son has received that S. S. is not still in the process of
determining his final figure ... they are done as far as they are
concerned ....
Also my son is away from home helping me with a medical concern for an
extended period of time so can this issue be discussed with Social
Security in a letter as I can see his absense from home opening up
another can of worms esp. with his living situation and SSI he has not
moved but will be here for a quite a while ??
Sorry For So Many Concerns !!!

If you'd stop trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill, you'd have
one less concern. For Christ's sake, give it up already.

[r***@webtv.net]

Well Thanks Jack .... Happy New Year To You Too !!!

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Well Thanks Jack .... Happy New Year To You Too !!!

That's just someone trolling.

Ignore.

[r***@webtv.net]

Happy New Years Jack !!!

Yesterday you mentioned
" unless someone filed a protective application or inquiry for your son
" What does that mean ?

I ask because today I remembered:

My wife died in (9/09)

I went to my local (Orlando) Social Security Office in early (12/09)
to file for her death benefit. After I answered many questions and
presented proof of her passing the young man assisting me gave me a date
when a Social Security Worker would be contacting me by phone to confirm
the info I had presented him.

On that day and time (12/28/09) this SS person called and said they
would be recording our conversation also. After she reviewed what info
that had been presented to SS on my personal appointment earlier that
month I remember she also asked me if I had any adult children that were
disabled before 22 ?. Of course I answered without question that I
have.

In early January I received a letter from SS and this same woman that
confirmed what had been said in our phone conversation. It was
completely correct until I got to a sentence that said in her letter
that I had said that I did'nt have any disabled children before 22.
This shocked me because I felt I had made myself very clear.

So I took a copy of the SS letter with the wrong info circled and wrote
on the bottom of the letter that I indeed have a child disabled before
22. I signed this copy and sent it back to this person at the SS Office
here in Orlando with my phone number. I typed all this on a copy of
their original and even dated it (February 10, 2010)
A few days later the same person called me back to tell me she had
received my correction and would correct her file. I did not send the
letter certified or return receipt and I did not note the day she called
me back either. Damn ....


This is why I asked you if this would constitute
a " protective applcation, or inquiry " ??

Thanks Again For All The Time You Have Spent Helping Me On What May
Sound Unimportant To You !!!


P.S. Could I write about this to the Orlando Office explaining how
this might effect his date of entitlement or does he need to do this ??

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Happy New Years Jack !!!
Yesterday you mentioned
" unless someone filed a protective application or inquiry for your son
" What does that mean ?
My wife died in (9/09)
I went to my local (Orlando) Social Security Office in early (12/09)
to file for her death benefit. After I answered many questions and
presented proof of her passing the young man assisting me gave me a date
when a Social Security Worker would be contacting me by phone to confirm
the info I had presented him.
On that day and time (12/28/09) this SS person called and said they
would be recording our conversation also. After she reviewed what info
that had been presented to SS on my personal appointment earlier that
month I remember she also asked me if I had any adult children that were
disabled before 22 ?. Of course I answered without question that I
have.
In early January I received a letter from SS and this same woman that
confirmed what had been said in our phone conversation. It was
completely correct until I got to a sentence that said in her letter
that I had said that I did'nt have any disabled children before 22.
This shocked me because I felt I had made myself very clear.
on the bottom of the letter that I indeed have a child disabled before
22. I signed this copy and sent it back to this person at the SS Office
here in Orlando with my phone number. I typed all this on a copy of
their original and even dated it (February 10, 2010)
A few days later the same person called me back to tell me she had
received my correction and would correct her file. I did not send the
letter certified or return receipt and I did not note the day she called
me back either. Damn ....
This is why I asked you if this would constitute
a " protective applcation, or inquiry " ??
Thanks Again For All The Time You Have Spent Helping Me On What May
Sound Unimportant To You !!!
P.S. Could I write about this to the Orlando Office explaining how
this might effect his date of entitlement or does he need to do this ??

Yes. you need to prepare a letter and explain everything your have
described above. If you are your son's rep payee, you should sign the
letter. If your son get his benefits directly, he should sign the
letter. Send it registered and request a receipt.

[r***@webtv.net]

Thanks Jack .....

So can you breifly explain what is a protective application or inquiry
??

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Thanks Jack .....
So can you breifly explain what is a protective application or inquiry
??

In a SS case, a written statement of intent to file can serve as a
protective filing date if the formal application is filed within 6
months. Even a recorded telephone message can serve as protection if
the formal application is subsequently filed. In your case, she asked
if you had a disabled adult child whose onset began before age 22.
You said that you did. She should have sent you the application at
that time. It's going to be difficult to prove at this point unless
the woman remembers your interview.

But even if you cannot establish entitlement back to Sept. 2009, an
application was filed in July 2010. So, why is entitlement Nov. 2010?

I would raise both issues with SSA:

1) The woman should have sent an application after the interview.

2) Why is the entitlement date Nov. 2010 when the application was July
2010?
_________

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0200204010

GN 00204.010 Protective Filing
_______

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0200204011

GN 00204.011 Use of Telephone Answering Machine Messages (TRUs) to
Establish Protective Filings

[r***@webtv.net]

Thanks So Much Jack .....

Since my son is here visiting right now and I am not his representitive
payee but am better at writing and establishing the fact of my recorded
telephone interview with the woman at Social Security in Dec (09) and I
can possible better establish the fact that would establish the earliest
entitlement date, can I write the letter and both of us sign it ? I
don't know who would sign it first but I believe it would be send to
the SS office in Jamica, New York (Northeast Service Center) they are
not where my son lives in Mass or here in Orlando but the ones that made
the final decision establishing my sons entititlement date as November
2010 ?? Maybe you could shed some light as to who should sign and
where it should be sent from here ?? I can't imagine them needing
either of us to show up at either of our home offices as they already
have all the source information and have already made their basic
decision ?? Since my son does not intent on returning home anytime
soon and he cannot send the letter certified and return receipt from
there I wonder how best to proceed ??

Thanks Again ..... Happy New Year .....

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Thanks So Much Jack .....
Since my son is here visiting right now and I am not his representitive
payee but am better at writing and establishing the fact of my recorded
telephone interview with the woman at Social Security in Dec (09) and I
can possible better establish the fact that would establish the earliest
entitlement date, can I write the letter and both of us sign it ? I
don't know who would sign it first but I believe it would be send to
the SS office in Jamica, New York (Northeast Service Center) they are
not where my son lives in Mass or here in Orlando but the ones that made
the final decision establishing my sons entititlement date as November
2010 ?? Maybe you could shed some light as to who should sign and
where it should be sent from here ?? I can't imagine them needing
either of us to show up at either of our home offices as they already
have all the source information and have already made their basic
decision ?? Since my son does not intent on returning home anytime
soon and he cannot send the letter certified and return receipt from
there I wonder how best to proceed ??
Thanks Again ..... Happy New Year .....

The Program Service Centers do not usually interact with the public.
They take the input from the local offices and/or DDSs and certify
payment. The primary letter should be to the office that interviewed
you. You should relate the details of the interview as you have here.
You should sign the letter. Have your son co-sign. If you send a
copy to the service center, odds are that it will die there.

I suspect that Orlando sent the info to your son's local office in
Mass. and something got fouled-up.

Your son should also report a change of address on the letter.

[r***@webtv.net]

Jack ....

Ok so I write my experience and send it to Orlando office as it relates
to what happened to my son later then I sign it and my son co signs it.
Then I bring it to my local post office and send it to my local SS
office certified return receipt, right ?? My son does not want to
report any change of address as he is visiting for an extended period
but has no entention of moving from his present address of 30 years in
Mass.

Happy New Day !!!

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Jack ....
Ok so I write my experience and send it to Orlando office as it relates
to what happened to my son later then I sign it and my son co signs it.
Then I bring it to my local post office and send it to my local SS
office certified return receipt, right ?? My son does not want to
report any change of address as he is visiting for an extended period
but has no entention of moving from his present address of 30 years in
Mass.
Happy New Day !!!

You might want to send it registered with a request for receipt
ratehr than certified. Certified mail is very expensive & usually
sent if you're shipping cash or valuables.

As for the change of address, I'm merely repeating the party line.
SSA could be sending him important notices to his Mass. address, maybe
about this very issue of correct entitlement month. If you're
confident that the post office is forwarding all his mail to Fla.,
well, that's your call.

[MB]

Post by Jack
You might want to send it registered with a request for receipt
ratehr than certified. Certified mail is very expensive & usually
sent if you're shipping cash or valuables.

I think you got that backwards, Jack. Certified mail is MUCH less
expensive than Registered mail, which start at $2.80 and $10.60,
respectively. Registered mail comes with the insurance, not
Certified. And Registered can take 3-5 times longer to deliver than
Certified.

http://www.usps.com/prices/extra-services-prices.htm

[Jack]

Post by MB

Post by Jack
You might want to send it registered with a request for receipt
ratehr than certified. Certified mail is very expensive & usually
sent if you're shipping cash or valuables.

I think you got that backwards, Jack. Certified mail is MUCH less
expensive than Registered mail, which start at $2.80 and $10.60,
respectively. Registered mail comes with the insurance, not
Certified. And Registered can take 3-5 times longer to deliver than
Certified.
http://www.usps.com/prices/extra-services-prices.htm

Excuse me, but I'm the expert in this group. In case you don't know,
I have adjudicated and reviewed about 15,000 disability claims
as a disability examiner in central office, followed by 23 years of
writing disability regulations and operating policies. During that
time, I received hundreds of pieces of mail every day and I sent out
just as much. So, it's my call, and I don't need you to be telling me
what method of mailing should be in any particular situation.

[Jack]

Post by MB

Post by Jack
You might want to send it registered with a request for receipt
ratehr than certified. Certified mail is very expensive & usually
sent if you're shipping cash or valuables.

I think you got that backwards, Jack. Certified mail is MUCH less
expensive than Registered mail, which start at $2.80 and $10.60,
respectively. Registered mail comes with the insurance, not
Certified. And Registered can take 3-5 times longer to deliver than
Certified.
http://www.usps.com/prices/extra-services-prices.htm

I got it ass backwards apparently.

[Twayne]

Post by Jack

Post by Jack
You might want to send it registered with a request for receipt
ratehr than certified.  Certified mail is very expensive & usually
sent if you're shipping cash or valuables.

I think you got that backwards, Jack.  Certified mail is MUCH less
expensive than Registered mail, which start at $2.80 and $10.60,
respectively.  Registered mail comes with the insurance, not
Certified.  And Registered can take 3-5 times longer to deliver than
Certified.
http://www.usps.com/prices/extra-services-prices.htm

I got it ass backwards apparently.

Precisely what one would expect from a backwards ass.

[r***@webtv.net]

Oh yes I forgot since my son got his original entitlement letter on
November 17, 2010 it is now about 45 days till his 60 day appeal rights.
I plan on acting on this very soon but if for any chance it did not get
there in 60 days from what you stated this is their error and I or
actually my son would have as long as 4 years to clear up his actual
entitlement date ??

Thank You ..... Jack !!!

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Oh yes I forgot since my son got his original entitlement letter on
November 17, 2010 it is now about 45 days till his 60 day appeal rights.
I plan on acting on this very soon but if for any chance it did not get
there in 60 days from what you stated this is their error and I or
actually my son would have as long as 4 years to clear up his actual
entitlement date ??
Thank You ..... Jack !!!

They can reopen computations within four years *if* they made a
clerical error.

[r***@webtv.net]

Yes no problem with the forward .... I just wonder how open we should be
about my son being here for a few months or if they will start something
over that ?? Jack, would you find this an error in their computation
or a clerical error ??

Thank You Sir ....

[Twayne]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Yes no problem with the forward .... I just wonder how open we should be
about my son being here for a few months or if they will start something
over that ??  Jack,  would you find this an error in their computation
or a clerical error ??
Thank You Sir ....

Geezzz. Is this back and forth ping-ponging over trivia ever going to
end? Next you will be asking whether you and your son should sign
with different color pens?

[Jack]

On Sun, 2 Jan 2011 13:41:06 -0800 (PST), Twayne

Post by Twayne

Post by r***@webtv.net
Yes no problem with the forward .... I just wonder how open we should be
about my son being here for a few months or if they will start something
over that ?? =A0Jack, =A0would you find this an error in their computatio=

n

Post by r***@webtv.net
or a clerical error ??
Thank You Sir ....

Geezzz. Is this back and forth ping-ponging over trivia ever going to
end? Next you will be asking whether you and your son should sign
with different color pens?

Lay off, Twayne. How f...ing insensitive can you be? Don't you know
anything about genetics?

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Yes no problem with the forward .... I just wonder how open we should be
about my son being here for a few months or if they will start something
over that ?? Jack, would you find this an error in their computation
or a clerical error ??
Thank You Sir ....

They'll tell you the same thing I did, i.e., that your son could
possible lose some important info that would be mailed to the address
that's in their records.

If they made an error in computing benefits or in sending incorrect
data to the computer, there is a 4 year window to reopen. It's
possible that their explanation will satisfy you, we'll have to see.
Maybe they're still in the process of adjusting. The main thing now
is to have them explain that entitlement date. Then take it from
there.

[r***@webtv.net]

So Jack and you others do you find this situation a clerical error ??
sorry for for being so slow to pick up on what you guys find clear ....

[r***@webtv.net]

Or sorry should I say it this way is what has happened a clerical error
?

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Or sorry should I say it this way is what has happened a clerical error
?

If all the facts you presented are true:

1) Son's disability onset was before age 22

2) Wife died Sept. 2009.

3) Application for child's benefits filed July 2010.

4) First month entitled as a child Nov. 2010.

Then someone made a clerical error in putting one of those facts into
the computer.

And that's not even addressing the other issue of a protective filing
based on telephone recording in 2009.

[r***@webtv.net]

Ok Jack Thanks Again Think I Got It Now ....

I'd Better Get Busy Getting Something Written Up .....

When I Am Writing A Clearification OF What Happened To Me On The Phone
Recording And Such Should I Expect The Orlando Office To Pass Such
Appeal On To My Son's Office In Mass Or Send Them A Copy Too ?? Also,
How Do Identify Myself And Son In The Appeal So They Know Who We Are ?
Our S.S. Or Address'es Or Both ??

[r***@webtv.net]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Ok Jack Thanks Again Think I Got It Now ....
I'd Better Get Busy Getting Something Written Up .....
When I Am Writing A Clearification OF What Happened To Me On The Phone
Recording And Such Should I Expect The Orlando Office To Pass Such
Appeal On To My Son's Office In Mass Or Send Them A Copy Too ?? Also,
How Do Identify Myself And Son In The Appeal So They Know Who We Are ?
Our S.S. Or Address'es Or Both ??

Just a few more questions, Jack, if you don't mind.

1) Should I use a pencil or a pen to write the clarification of what
happened?

2) If I use a pen, does the color of the ink matter?

3) Should I use a ball-point or a felt tip pen?

4) Should I write the clarification on white paper or would yellow
paper be ok?

5) Does it matter if the paper is plain or lined?

6) Do I need to use legal size paper or is letter size ok?

7) Is it ok if I lick the envelope to seal it, or is that something
that my son needs to do?

8) Does it matter who licks the stamp?

That's all for now, but I'll undoubtedly have more questions tomorrow
morning.

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Ok Jack Thanks Again Think I Got It Now ....
I'd Better Get Busy Getting Something Written Up .....
When I Am Writing A Clearification OF What Happened To Me On The Phone
Recording And Such Should I Expect The Orlando Office To Pass Such
Appeal On To My Son's Office In Mass Or Send Them A Copy Too ?? Also,
How Do Identify Myself And Son In The Appeal So They Know Who We Are ?
Our S.S. Or Address'es Or Both ??

Just send it to the Orlando office if that's the one you talked to.
Identify yourself and address and your SS number and tell them that
your son is a disabled child on on your acct. Identify his name and
SS number and tell them that he is also drawing his own SSDI.

Then go into the facts starting with your wife's termination of
benefits on your acct. due to death. Then tell them what happened
beginning with the phone interview when you notified them of her
death, etc, etc.

[r***@webtv.net]

Post by Jack

Post by r***@webtv.net
Ok Jack Thanks Again Think I Got It Now ....
I'd Better Get Busy Getting Something Written Up .....
When I Am Writing A Clearification OF What Happened To Me On The Phone
Recording And Such Should I Expect The Orlando Office To Pass Such
Appeal On To My Son's Office In Mass Or Send Them A Copy Too ?? Also,
How Do Identify Myself And Son In The Appeal So They Know Who We Are ?
Our S.S. Or Address'es Or Both ??

Just send it to the Orlando office if that's the one you talked to.
Identify yourself and address and your SS number and tell them that
your son is a disabled child on on your acct. Identify his name and
SS number and tell them that he is also drawing his own SSDI.
Then go into the facts starting with your wife's termination of
benefits on your acct. due to death. Then tell them what happened
beginning with the phone interview when you notified them of her
death, etc, etc.

I don't think that I can handle all that.
Would you be willing to do it for me?

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Jack you don't seem to think that my sons past SSDI and SSI and current
are very close to the same monthly amounts meaning anything as far as
justifying S.S. actions ?? I mean his new amount is very close to the
old one just that now his SSDI has gone up by $125.00 and his SSI has
gone down $96.00 ??
I of course want to agree with you but just don't understand the logic
that I believe they will use against us ?? I know one thing from the
letters my son has received that S. S. is not still in the process of
determining his final figure ... they are done as far as they are
concerned ....
Also my son is away from home helping me with a medical concern for an
extended period of time so can this issue be discussed with Social
Security in a letter as I can see his absense from home opening up
another can of worms esp. with his living situation and SSI he has not
moved but will be here for a quite a while ??
Sorry For So Many Concerns !!!

Without your folder, it's difficult to have an opinion on the benefit
amounts. I can say that an increase of $125 will have a significant
effect on lowering his SSI.

Is your son getting his benefits directly? If so, he should be
discussing this with SSA. If you are his rep payee, you should be
inquiring on his behalf.

I don't recommend a letter unless you send it registered and request a
receipt.

[r***@webtv.net]

Jack the more I look at this the more I wonder if I would cause my son
more problems then help him by complaining about Social Security's
Awards date ?? I mean his old amount was $808.39 in total and his new
amount is $837.39. Could I have them only bring his total amount back
down to $808.39 ??

I'm Confused !!!

[Jack]

Post by r***@webtv.net
Jack the more I look at this the more I wonder if I would cause my son
more problems then help him by complaining about Social Security's
Awards date ?? I mean his old amount was $808.39 in total and his new
amount is $837.39. Could I have them only bring his total amount back
down to $808.39 ??
I'm Confused !!!

If his correct amount turns out to be the lower amt., they will
uncover it sooner or later and he could be held to repay the overpmt.
The mere fact that SSA made an error does not waive recovery of an
overpmt. There has to be other factors too. In your shoes, I would
fight for all the retroactive months that are due me.

[c***@gmail.com]

Jack..... My mother was approved for survivor benefits, she gets 599 a month. It started in june. Her letter stated that she was approved from February so since she got her first check in june, she is eligible for back pay for February, March, April and May. It has been 5 months since her first check. I have called but get a different answer every time. How long does it normally take?